But we have to save the men, too …
Hey readers who like to shake things up,
A few weeks ago, I left a comment on a blog and won a DVD called, The Hustle for Worthiness, by Brene Brown. I enjoyed the entire DVD. It’s excellent. Some advice Brene passed along from a friend reinforced something I’ve been talking about for years. (I don’t have the exact quote cause I lent the DVD to someone!) The gist of it was, if you want to save the women, you have to save the men, too.
Makes sense, right?
If women are oppressed by their roles, then men are too. Not all women agree with this. I did a lot of research and wrote a paper on liberating men in grad school. My female teacher slammed it. I got it back covered with unflattering comments scrawled in red and an unexpected B-, the lowest grade I got on any paper in my three years of study.
Did I produce an inferior paper or did I choose an inferior topic? Got my own theory.
I know that a lot of men out there have dreams too. They’ve told me. The problem being men and women both get locked into the generic American Dream to work and consume, work and consume. It doesn’t leave men a lot of options once a family gets entrenched in this cycle. Then folks succumb to the “it’s too late now” or “I’ll do things once my children graduate from college.”
I wonder if sacrificing your own life for your children, who will then presumably sacrifice their lives for their children ( and so on), if this model really creates a happy adult society? Wouldn’t a thriving society filled with active participants of all ages be more vibrant?
Yes? No?
If you’re woman, would you be willing to reduce your standard of living so your husband can try something new? Have you?
I’d love to hear your thoughts on saving the men too …
Muse thx, Giulietta
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Hi Giullietta,
Two points from me today:
1. On the concept of sacrificing for children: While I think that our definition of ‘sacrifice’ in a consumption-obsessed culture is skewed, I also can’t think of anything more worth making sacrifices for. Let’s change the definition rather than the intent.
2. On traditional roles: You’re completely correct, of course. If you think convincing some women of that is hard, try it on the men. Too many of us still take our sense of masculine identity from a set of anachronistic preconceptions based on a misguided misogyny. We could all be more free if we worked together and based responsibilities on individual strengths instead of traditional roles.
I have a feeling we’re a generation or three away from that concept saturating the culture though. We do what we can do, yeah?
Hey Michael,
Good points. Changing the definition of sacrifice makes sense. I’ve always believed that the best role models for children are parents who continue to live. That’s what my site is all about. One of my favorite memories of my dad is looking out the window and seeing him tap dancing on the driveway. He’d been taking a tap class for fun.
Interesting that it’s even harder to convince the men to save themselves. Never thought about it that way. I guessing it’s like any movement – it starts small and gradually fans out. Who are champions of the men’s movement? I’m not sure I can name anyone! Thx. G.
My answer to your final question… yes.
My husband and I have a long history of this kind of give and take. We don’t see it as sacrifice as much as support for what the other needs to feel happy and whole. Hopefully those are the ideals we are passing along to our children.
I don’t know how you create this type of equality in a relationship. I only know that I have it and I am thankful.
Hi Angie,
Give and take. Now, those would make some good marriage vows. Since I’ve been to your site many times and read your blog regularly, I’d say you’re passing those ideals down for sure.
Sacrifice seems to be a loaded word. After reading the comments, I’m wondering what that word even means? I see adults as children too. When children of all ages lose their dreams, cynicism sets in and it depresses us all.
Thx for stopping by! G.
Giulietta, thank you for visiting and commenting on my blog.
Yes, I agree with you that “a thriving society filled with active participants of all ages be more vibrant.” It’s a form of society in which each person, male or female, is encouraged to stretch into and express individual potential.
I live in a society where men are still expected to be worker drones – so much so that a few hours on a Saturday or Sunday, become “something called family service,” – the short time a father will spend time with his children. However, many men are so exhausted they spend the entire weekend sleeping, so no family time at all arises.
The woman’s power in the home is considerable in Japan – it is also unhealthy, as many effects in society now show. You have raised an important topic in your post. Were you ever able to talk to your female professor about the paper she graded with so much bias?
Male and female have become such loaded words in the West – it is easy to forget they are simply words to describe aspects of our authentic self that exist within each one of us, man or woman. Morning greetings from the mountains in Japan – Catrien Ross.
Hey Catrien,
Worker drones! good way to put it. It’s been a few years, but some of my colleagues where I worked often went to Japan on business. They mentioned how drunk the men got after work, to the point of vomiting on the sides of the street. Not sure if it’s still true. Certainly a sign of something not quite right. I share your wish for everyone to stretch into and express his or her individual potential. I’m not sure why the present set-up exists anymore. Question: who benefits from it?
Much thx for stopping by! G.
Hi again Giulietta,
I’d be disappointed if there was a men’s movement like that. We don’t need to work for equality (we have more than our fair share already), just wake up to the fact that people are people and that antiquated concepts of gender roles simply shouldn’t be necessary.
Advocacy movements, while still needed in many instances, so often seem to pit one group against another creating an ‘us’ and a ‘them’. I’d like to think that we, as a species, could move beyond that kind of counter-progressive and self-defeating competition.
There should only be an ‘us’.
What can I say… I’m a dreamer.
Michael, return as often as you like! You make me think …
I agree that movements can pit people against each other. The down side. They’re great ways to wake people up. The up side. Without some kind of ground swell, people continue to sleepwalk, sometimes not even realizing anything’s wrong.
You need that one person to stand up and refuse to go along with the program. Then more stand up. And pretty soon it’s a ton of folks. If that first person doesn’t stand up, nothing happens.
Now, if someone stands up and says, “what are we doing here, we’re all in this together,” that could be the start of an ‘us.’ The people who benefit from a ‘non-us’ world won’t like it – competition. Perhaps the question becomes how do you convince them that the ‘us’ world benefits them too?
Thx! G.
I agree with you that the men need to be saved. In general, they have not been encouraged to share their feelings as much, and to keep things inside. It’s okay for us women to take a cut in pay to pursue our dreams but men often hesitate to put themselves in the role of being supported more by the woman (speaking in the context of the male-female relationship, you know) to pursue theirs. Although it’s true that men enjoy many more benefits such as higher average pay and don’t have the pressure that women have of being “the organizer” of the family (not all women are natural at doing this!), men are still so beholden to fulfilling a role as “the provider” that they’d put their dreams aside or not even consider them. Angie is lucky to have the egalitarian “give and take” that she has!
Great post topic.
Hey Sally,
So true what you say about suppressing feelings and not feeling comfortable about letting the woman be the provider. Excellent points! Yes, more pay but at what emotional and health costs? It seems to be that many heart attacks result from the weird world of work that asks men to work until they drop — dead in some cases.
Thx for stopping by! G.
I love this post, and am so glad you are talking about this.
In talking to male friends or colleagues, I’ve been struck again and again by just how deep the connection between earning money and self worth is for so many men. So many men give up on their dreams and passions because its not the most financially lucrative thing they could do, and they simply can’t imagine making the financial tradeoffs.
I’m looking forward to the day that we get more comfortable with downshifting our material standard of living to increase our quality of life – for both women and men.
Tara
Hi Tara,
I second your ending about downshifting our material standard. Have read recent reports that folks are less happy with the more stuff we have now than they used to be with less stuff.
Not to mention what all this stuff does to the planet …
Thanks so much for stopping by! G.
I felt compelled to look up the definition of sacrifice… in essence, to lose something in order to gain something else… I didn’t realize (until you raised the question about what it really meant) that it does feel like a negative word to me…
When giving, compromising, “sacrificing” I try to examine my motives first… it’s important to understand the real intent of our actions…
Food for thought so early in the morning. 🙂
ps- your life shop sounds wonderful! I hope you have a great turnout.
Angie,
Food for thought is delicious any time of day! Thanks for the info on sacrifice. Interesting definition. It does appear to be one of those loaded words. Good point about the real intent. I like the idea of stopping & asking oneself, “why am I really doing this?” Excellent!
Thx. G.